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Visiting various penis size dedicated websites (thepenissizedebate, etc) an interesting thought occured to me while contemplating the absurtidity of these sites.

 

I think the majority of our penis size insecurities stem from our fear of not measuring up to our peers. Why? Because we are afraid we cannot sexually please our partners to the extent our horse hung brothers can. Of course this is a ridiculous concept, but it prevails none the less. If, as the penis size dedicated sites claim, all women deep, deep down desire and can only be satisfied by huge penises, this would create a enormous selective advantage for these large-penised men.

 

A selective advantage like this would inevitably lead to an average penis size as large as the average women could take, a situation much different than exists today. The large variation of penis sizes present in our world today, seems to indicate that there is, and never was a selective advantage present for large penises. If there is no selection advantage, then women cannot truly desire a large penis over a small one.

 

Just my thoughts, please lemme know what you think! If you find a flaw with my logic, then please post, i'll defend myself to my best abilities.

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There's really no contest that when it comes to penetration, a more well-endowed guy has more options, regardless of whether he is gay or straight. So, in a way, the feeling of not measuring up is not completely unjustified, most especially for those who really are below average.

 

Still, there are many things that a man can do to sexually please their partner, many of which don't require a penis at all. Really, it comes down to trying to have a more positive outlook, which can be hard sometimes.

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Visiting various penis size dedicated websites (thepenissizedebate, etc) an interesting thought occured to me while contemplating the absurtidity of these sites.

 

I think the majority of our penis size insecurities stem from our fear of not measuring up to our peers. Why? Because we are afraid we cannot sexually please our partners to the extent our horse hung brothers can. Of course this is a ridiculous concept, but it prevails none the less. If, as the penis size dedicated sites claim, all women deep, deep down desire and can only be satisfied by huge penises, this would create a enormous selective advantage for these large-penised men.

 

A selective advantage like this would inevitably lead to an average penis size as large as the average women could take, a situation much different than exists today. The large variation of penis sizes present in our world today, seems to indicate that there is, and never was a selective advantage present for large penises. If there is no selection advantage, then women cannot truly desire a large penis over a small one.

 

Just my thoughts, please lemme know what you think! If you find a flaw with my logic, then please post, i'll defend myself to my best abilities.

 

Unfortunately there are a few good flaws in your logic. First off, women have to pass a baby out that hole. A penis that big wouldn't even fit on a mans body anymore, require too much blood, etc. Maxing out any women, truly, is impossible.

 

The second flaw is much more serious. That flaw is that natural selection is a ongoing process and when we look at ourselves (humans) objectively, we can see what has happened. We consider a 3inch penis "small" however, a 300lb gorilla has on average a 3inch penis. If you look at any of our closest ancestors, we have BIG penises compared to any of them. That shows us that in fact, yes, women have chosen larger men on average, that's why we are bigger than other apes. We are a bunch of hyper evolved hairless, big boobed big dicked monkeys.

 

There was paper done on this, I know I saw it linked on here before. Anyway, the same study that noted that also noted this about different simian species. In monkey species where mating occured with just a few males and for life, more or less, penis size stayed small. When there was alot of sex going on and alot of apes were getting a chance, penis size grew. That's because women had a choice in their mate with more sexually free species.

 

So yeah, women have preferred bigger penises over the aeons, that's why we are the way we are as a species right now. Like azure said, you just have to accept it for what it is and move on.

 

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There's really no contest that when it comes to penetration, a more well-endowed guy has more options, regardless of whether he is gay or straight.

 

Sorry i wasnt clear enough, my intent was to focus on women's pleasure only. And like you said, there is much more to a woman's pleasure than penis size. Also, i should say this theorey doesnt apply to all women. Of course theres women who prefer and "need" a large penis, but if there is no selective advantage present, these women must be few and far between. This theorey only concerns average women, as they make up the majority of women.

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Unfortunately there are a few good flaws in your logic. First off, women have to pass a baby out that hole. A penis that big wouldn't even fit on a mans body anymore, require too much blood, etc. Maxing out any women, truly, is impossible.

 

Remember though that childbirth is a long painful event, and unlikely to offer and sexual gratification (just alot of sweating and groaning). So a penis as big as a baby wouldnt even fit in most women's vaginas.

 

The second flaw is much more serious. That flaw is that natural selection is a ongoing process and when we look at ourselves (humans) objectively, we can see what has happened. We consider a 3inch penis "small" however, a 300lb gorilla has on average a 3inch penis. If you look at any of our closest ancestors, we have BIG penises compared to any of them. That shows us that in fact, yes, women have chosen larger men on average.

 

This is a good argument, however... Gorillas & Chimps (our closest relatives) are far removed, just as we are, from our common ancestors that lived 6-7 million years ago. Thus we cannot compare with apes as they have undergone millions of years of evolution also. We have found very few bones from our hominid ancestors, and no tissue samples, and we cant possibly konw the penis size on these hominids. Second, the huge variation present in modern humans (as small as 2" to as big as 13") seems to indicate that there is no selective advantage and is just a naturual variation like height.

 

In monkey species where mating occured with just a few males and for life, more or less, penis size stayed small. When there was alot of sex going on and alot of apes were getting a chance, penis size grew. That's because women had a choice in their mate with more sexually free species.

 

So yeah, women have preferred bigger penises over the aeons, that's why we are the way we are as a species right now. Like azure said, you just have to accept it for what it is and move on.

 

This kinda proves my point, humans for the most part have pair-bonded relationships. That means that once a women selects a mate, she tends to stay with them for their lifetime. According to this study then, humans shouldnt experience a penis size growth.

 

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I see, but I think for men, it's a pride issue. Men have this wonderful, God-given instrument, and they want to use it to make another instrument scream and holler. He is proud of it. However, when the idea of that happening becomes threatened, insecurity starts to flow in, thus, making it harder to become a better lover. I think the whole penis size issue is all mental. I think it has nothing to do with how big or small. It's like any other experience: if you do not feel confident, you won't give your best. I believe many men need to say, "My penis can do anything that any other penis can or better," and believe it.

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I see, but I think for men, it's a pride issue. Men have this wonderful, God-given instrument, and they want to use it to make another instrument scream and holler. He is proud of it. However, when the idea of that happening becomes threatened, insecurity starts to flow in, thus, making it harder to become a better lover.

 

This is what i think is the cause for alot of men's insecurities. And the reason for posting the theory i support.

 

I think the whole penis size issue is all mental. I think it has nothing to do with how big or small. It's like any other experience: if you do not feel confident, you won't give your best. I believe many men need to say, "My penis can do anything that any other penis can or better," and believe it.

 

You hit it right on the money here, its entirely mental.

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Bad logic on the penis size human vs other primates.

Would YOU want to swing through the trees with a 8" penis smacking branches. Maybe our penis length has to do with walking upright, rather than spending time on all fours. Walking through shrubbery on all fours having it smack your low hangers all the time, getting poked by a sharp stick...not my idea of having fun. Upright gives us more ground clearanc...LOL

 

The only way to know for certain would be to compare our current penis size to our earliest hominid species.

 

I think some of the early species had larger penises and they were ejected from the monkey tribe. Rather than be embarrassed and try to hide their larger appendages, they started walking more upright to show that larger penis size is no reason to feel shame and so we are descendents of the rejected outcasts. They were ejected, mated with female troglodytes, who didn't judge a trog by their penis, but considered the whole person and started a species with 4" penises or even 5" ones and taught their offspring not to walk hunched over to hide their body. So our uprightness stems from lack of shame and acceptance of who/what we are.

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Also, i should say this theorey doesnt apply to all women. Of course theres women who prefer and "need" a large penis, but if there is no selective advantage present, these women must be few and far between. This theorey only concerns average women, as they make up the majority of women.

 

Whoa, now. Don't be so quick to speak on the preferences of the average woman. I'll be the first person to say (and I have, on many occasions) that penis size doesn't matter to women as much as men tend to think that it does. However, what a woman is willing to accept and what she prefers are two completely different things altogether.

 

I see, but I think for men, it's a pride issue. Men have this wonderful, God-given instrument, and they want to use it to make another instrument scream and holler. He is proud of it. However, when the idea of that happening becomes threatened, insecurity starts to flow in, thus, making it harder to become a better lover. I think the whole penis size issue is all mental. I think it has nothing to do with how big or small. It's like any other experience: if you do not feel confident, you won't give your best. I believe many men need to say, "My penis can do anything that any other penis can or better," and believe it.

 

I agree with what you are saying to an extent, but this is not entirely true. I can think to myself, "Hey, I'm fat." However, if I was actually thin, then it would completely be a mental issue. Further, what's thin to one might be fat to another. Regardless, it's pretty much beyond contestation that I am fat, so saying, "Hey, I'm thin" would be completely unrealistic.

 

I think your logic applies more to guys who really are average. For those of us who fall in the minority, having a mindset that we can perform the same as everybody else with our penises is completely unrealistic. We can still please, though, even if we have been presented with less than the average man.

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Women do not care about penis size. I think more important is whether or not you can get fully aroused or not. Many people with penises 8 inches or bigger cannot get fully aroused, while smaller penises do not require as much blodd flow to reach max arousal.

 

Most women would prefer a smaller fully erect penis to a dangling 8 inch penis.

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Women do not care about penis size.

 

Most women would prefer a smaller fully erect penis to a dangling 8 inch penis.

 

These two statements contradict each other.

 

As I've said, women do not care about penis size as much as men tend to think. However, if you think that women do not have their own preferences, then you are mistaken. It really comes down to how much attention a woman garners to penis size, which varies by the woman.

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Whoa, now. Don't be so quick to speak on the preferences of the average woman. I'll be the first person to say (and I have, on many occasions) that penis size doesn't matter to women as much as men tend to think that it does. However, what a woman is willing to accept and what she prefers are two completely different things altogether.

 

Remember that in talking about natural selection, we are speaking on a systems level, concerning whole populations and not individuals. There is no doubt that individuals have preferences, just as we all have different food tastes. My reference to average women regarded those in the middle of the curve, that make up the majority of the population, not each individual "average" woman.

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Natural selection does not dictate what women like and what they don't like. Even assuming what you say about natural selection is true, you still miss the bigger point that women do not make all of their choices based on natural selection. Their own preferences and experiences play a large part as well.

 

If this was not the case, then every woman would practically be the same. Life is different for every single woman, and every woman has different experiences.

 

In this sense, you can't refer to women "as a whole." Women, like men, are unique individuals. Applying generalizations to groups of people, which is essentially what you are doing here, is dictated by society, and has nothing to do with natural selection at all.

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Natural selection does not dictate what women like and what they don't like. Even assuming what you say about natural selection is true, you still miss the bigger point that women do not make all of their choices based on natural selection. Their own preferences and experiences play a large part as well.

 

If this was not the case, then every woman would practically be the same. Life is different for every single woman, and every woman has different experiences.

 

In this sense, you can't refer to women "as a whole." Women, like men, are unique individuals. Applying generalizations to groups of people, which is essentially what you are doing here, is dictated by society, and has nothing to do with natural selection at all.

 

You have this backwards here. I said not that natural selection causes preferences, but rather that preferences could cause natural selection. In addition, natural selection has everything to do with generalizations. The unit of evolution is not the individual, but the population.

 

Heres an example. If one women prefered larger penises, she would choose to mate with a large penised male. This would not have a large evolutionary significance, as that woman is only one of many in the population. Now, imagine if

"women as a whole" prefered larger penises. This presents a much greater evolutionary significance. If women as a whole prefered larger penises, a large penis would be a selective advantage in mating. Thus larger penised males would have better success mating, leading eventually to larger penised offspring.

 

Now, this is looking only at the role of natural selection on penis size from a preference perspective. I havent given enough thought to if there could be natural selection on preference from a large penis perspective. This would require a large penis preference to be inherited somehow, which i dont even know if its possible.

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Let's try this one more time...

 

You will never be able to apply natural selection to penis size preference, or any other physical preference for that matter. This is because, as I said earlier, every woman's preferences are different. This will never change. Even if 99% of the women in this world only liked large penises, it is possible that 99% of the women 100 years from now might only like small penises. For your theory to be correct, the majority of women would have to be constant in their preferences, and they are not. No two women have the exact same preferences. This is because all of them are different. It's why statements like, "Women are better communicators than men" and "Men are more visual than women" will never be accurate.

 

Also, the other flaw in your logic is that preferences are not constant. A woman can like large penises and have a bad experience with a well-endowed man, and her preference change to average or lesser-endowed men.

 

Preferences are not ingrained into the mind - they are shaped throughout the course of someone's life.

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Unfortunately there are a few good flaws in your logic. First off' date=' women have to pass a baby out that hole. A penis that big wouldn't even fit on a mans body anymore, require too much blood, etc. Maxing out any women, truly, is impossible.[/quote']

 

Remember though that childbirth is a long painful event, and unlikely to offer and sexual gratification (just alot of sweating and groaning). So a penis as big as a baby wouldnt even fit in most women's vaginas.

 

The second flaw is much more serious. That flaw is that natural selection is a ongoing process and when we look at ourselves (humans) objectively, we can see what has happened. We consider a 3inch penis "small" however, a 300lb gorilla has on average a 3inch penis. If you look at any of our closest ancestors, we have BIG penises compared to any of them. That shows us that in fact, yes, women have chosen larger men on average.

 

This is a good argument, however... Gorillas & Chimps (our closest relatives) are far removed, just as we are, from our common ancestors that lived 6-7 million years ago. Thus we cannot compare with apes as they have undergone millions of years of evolution also. We have found very few bones from our hominid ancestors, and no tissue samples, and we cant possibly konw the penis size on these hominids. Second, the huge variation present in modern humans (as small as 2" to as big as 13") seems to indicate that there is no selective advantage and is just a naturual variation like height.

 

In monkey species where mating occured with just a few males and for life, more or less, penis size stayed small. When there was alot of sex going on and alot of apes were getting a chance, penis size grew. That's because women had a choice in their mate with more sexually free species.

 

So yeah, women have preferred bigger penises over the aeons, that's why we are the way we are as a species right now. Like azure said, you just have to accept it for what it is and move on.

 

This kinda proves my point, humans for the most part have pair-bonded relationships. That means that once a women selects a mate, she tends to stay with them for their lifetime. According to this study then, humans shouldnt experience a penis size growth.

 

Height is far from a natural variation. Look at any chart showing our common ancestors. We begin to stand more and more upright (appear taller) and get bigger as we go. Height is ingrained into our DNA as a favorable characteristic, period! I've ranted on this before, rather not again, but it's far from a natural variation only trait. The taller a man gets the more likely he is to be married or have children, even in todays society. Part of that might be becuase they also make more money (height discrimination), but alot of it is the plain truth, women like tall guys (tall, dark and handsome, remember?) Anthropologists have noted no society in the history of the world has ever regarded short men in a good light, it's defintely in our dna, a survival mechanism.

 

Anyway, while we do mate for life as a species, we have alot of mates in most cases before settling.. In our society we dont' have say, 1 man having 15 women whom he gets to mate with becuase he's alpha. If that was the case then we'd find that penis size would stay small. In our society women pick and choose whom they mate with from a large variety of men, sleep with those they see worthy and mate for life if things work out, mostly due to the slow maturation of children into adults (men have to protect the kids). That's part of why women seek both tall, strong and rich men on the whole, they need a good combo to ensure safetey for them and the kids. Anyway, we aren't that far removed from chimps, 99% of our dna is the same.

 

Lastly, the real proof is all around you. For some strange reason you seem to be worried your penis is too small. Women seem to crack jokes about bigger being better on TV. Ask most women and their gut reaction is towards a bigger penis. This occurs all over the world in every country. The only notable exception being ancient greece, which I believe was more against a large flaccid than anything else. Sounds like alot of commotion for something that is just variation. Just imagine if you woke up tomorrow and nobody had any clothes. Something tells me that the bigger guys would probably do a bit better than the average to smaller guys. Not just in america but the world over. I'm in college and I know more than few guys who get laid just because they are big and girls get curious because they've never had one. Very few women look for a 3inch penis just becuase they never had one. Women rarely look at a guy who's 5'2 with tiny hands and say to their friends, bet he's got a tiny dick, with a mischevious look in their eyes. It works the other way around, for some reason......

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Let's try this one more time...

 

You will never be able to apply natural selection to penis size preference, or any other physical preference for that matter. This is because, as I said earlier, every woman's preferences are different. This will never change. Even if 99% of the women in this world only liked large penises, it is possible that 99% of the women 100 years from now might only like small penises.

 

Okay.... lemme try this one more time.

I am not trying to apply natural selection to penis size preference. I am trying to apply nautural selection to penis size, and in doing so, disprove what alot of men think: most women prefer big penises. Now i know all women have differenct preferences, im not stupid. I simply grouped women together for the sake of my argument because evolution acts on populations not individuals.

 

For your theory to be correct, the majority of women would have to be constant in their preferences, and they are not. No two women have the exact same preferences. This is because all of them are different. It's why statements like, "Women are better communicators than men" and "Men are more visual than women" will never be accurate.

 

This part is true, my logic was based on if women had a deep down physical/mental desire for large penises. Again, i think many men think that most women would prefer a larger penis. And again i was trying to disprove that a general preference existed based on natural selection logic

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Height is far from a natural variation. Look at any chart showing our common ancestors. We begin to stand more and more upright (appear taller) and get bigger as we go. Height is ingrained into our DNA as a favorable characteristic, period! I've ranted on this before, rather not again, but it's far from a natural variation only trait. The taller a man gets the more likely he is to be married or have children, even in todays society. Part of that might be becuase they also make more money (height discrimination), but alot of it is the plain truth, women like tall guys (tall, dark and handsome, remember?) Anthropologists have noted no society in the history of the world has ever regarded short men in a good light, it's defintely in our dna, a survival mechanism.

 

Height is a natural variation. If you gather a large enough group, their heights will almost perfectly match a natural bell curve. The larger the group, the better the match. It is known that of what comprises our height, only 10% of that is genetic. That means the rest is based on the enviroment. This is why the average american height has grown over the last 200 years, nutrition has increaced dramatically. Secondly there are many circumstances where smaller men have had a greater fitness in the enviroment and been able to reproduce better. Take the inuit for example, or the pygmy tribes in africa. Both these groups have good nutrition, and their height is the result of adaptation to their enviroment. In both cases, smaller men are better able to provide and thus reproduce.

 

Anyway, while we do mate for life as a species, we have alot of mates in most cases before settling.. In our society we dont' have say, 1 man having 15 women whom he gets to mate with becuase he's alpha. If that was the case then we'd find that penis size would stay small. In our society women pick and choose whom they mate with from a large variety of men, sleep with those they see worthy and mate for life if things work out, mostly due to the slow maturation of children into adults (men have to protect the kids).

 

This is exactly my point, if women really had a deep underlying preference for large penises, we wouldnt see the large variatin present today. They would choose large penised men over smaller ones, and thus a selection would be present. This is not the case we see in populations, so a general preference cannot exist.

 

That's part of why women seek both tall, strong and rich men on the whole, they need a good combo to ensure safetey for them and the kids. Anyway, we aren't that far removed from chimps, 99% of our dna is the same.

 

We also share 95% of our dna with mice, can we compare with them? There is alot a genetic material that is unchanged from bacteria to humans. Just becaue we share alot of dna with chimpanzees, doesnt mean we can imply cultural preferences between us.

 

Lastly, the real proof is all around you. For some strange reason you seem to be worried your penis is too small. Women seem to crack jokes about bigger being better on TV. Ask most women and their gut reaction is towards a bigger penis. This occurs all over the world in every country. The only notable exception being ancient greece, which I believe was more against a large flaccid than anything else. Sounds like alot of commotion for something that is just variation. Just imagine if you woke up tomorrow and nobody had any clothes. Something tells me that the bigger guys would probably do a bit better than the average to smaller guys. Not just in america but the world over. I'm in college and I know more than few guys who get laid just because they are big and girls get curious because they've never had one. Very few women look for a 3inch penis just becuase they never had one. Women rarely look at a guy who's 5'2 with tiny hands and say to their friends, bet he's got a tiny dick, with a mischevious look in their eyes. It works the other way around, for some reason......

 

Please dont assume what you know about me. I am comfortable with my penis, and have a healthy sex life. I was just trying to put forth a theory. In addition, you cannot imply that a couple college girls who would undoubtebly sleep with anyone is a good representation of our society. And the media is definitely not a representation of our actual society. The media also portrays blondes as dumb and incompetent, but do any of you actually believe this to be true? Of course not, its ridiculous.

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Well technically we can't say that because literally all these yeas women obey us. Now is when they are going their own way. It should take then thousands of years from now, to find out the truth.

if you dont believe me look back in to the the 1900s where women were obligated to marry a certain man choosen by the parents. And it only gets worse down the road.. 1800 , 1700 ...BC you get the idea...

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Actually, the "male-dominated society" has only been around since 4500 b.c. From about 30,000 years ago to about 4500 b.c. human society was centered around the female. There was a profound cultural focus on respecting and worshipping life giving, life nurturing, and basically any "femenine" symbol.

 

 

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Let's try this one more time...

 

You will never be able to apply natural selection to penis size preference' date=' or any other physical preference for that matter. This is because, as I said earlier, every woman's preferences are different. This will never change. Even if 99% of the women in this world only liked large penises, it is possible that 99% of the women 100 years from now might only like small penises.[/quote']

 

Okay.... lemme try this one more time.

I am not trying to apply natural selection to penis size preference. I am trying to apply nautural selection to penis size, and in doing so, disprove what alot of men think: most women prefer big penises. Now i know all women have differenct preferences, im not stupid. I simply grouped women together for the sake of my argument because evolution acts on populations not individuals.

 

For your theory to be correct, the majority of women would have to be constant in their preferences, and they are not. No two women have the exact same preferences. This is because all of them are different. It's why statements like, "Women are better communicators than men" and "Men are more visual than women" will never be accurate.

 

This part is true, my logic was based on if women had a deep down physical/mental desire for large penises. Again, i think many men think that most women would prefer a larger penis. And again i was trying to disprove that a general preference existed based on natural selection logic

 

Care to explain why we've never really had a short president, all but two of them were over average american height when they were in office? How about why the average height of a mal ceo is 3inches over an average american male? Height does follow a bell curve, but that doesn't mean natural selection hasn't occured, it's a slow work in progress. Women often put height requirements on dating sites (trust me, you'll never see it say, must be shorter than me). Anyway, in America 80% of height is actually genetic. As a large percentage of people grow to their genetically dispositioned height. Interestingly enough, this disposition as of right now sets us up at 5'9 for an average, with alot of men centered around that height, less as you head toward extremes. Give us 5,000 years and I'll bet the bellcurve will still exist, but moved forward 2-3inches, near 6 foot probably. Like I already said, hold everything else constant taller men make more money, have more kids and are more likely to be married/in a relationship. That type of generality leads to those genes being passed on more often. Given the choice women have expressed much greater interest in tall men over short ones, studies are all over the place with overwhelming majorities stating that preference. Height discrimination of probably the most serious form of it that exists in america, as few laws are setup to stop it. It's part of human's dna to dislike short people, or at least believe them to be lacking. The only time they are at an advantage is in a time of famine, as they need less food to live than a taller person, albeit they have a harder time collecting it for others.

 

Anyway, if on the whole women truly preferred a small penis then why in the world does a site like this exist? Why do all the jokes always make fun of small guys? Why dont' small men brag to their friends like big guys do? Proof is in the pudding and I see very few bigger guy complaining, unless they hit really high up on the curve. Just becuase the average size right now is 5 does not mean that is ideal for a women on average. All it means is that the slow processs of natural selection has only gotten us this far in weeding out smaller genes. Again, looking at every other primate WITH SIMILAR BODIES, we've defintely done a pretty good job making our sexual organs bigger. Boobs and penis included. Don't see too many other mammals with boobs as big as a human females given their overall size. While their are men who like small breasts, the generality tends to lump men into liking big boobs, in almost every country.

 

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