Public Size Shaming: How should we respond?

[smalliscool]

First Lorde, now Katy Perry, both are using size shaming as a way to "fight back" on social media.

 

I'm all for feminism, but this is an equally pernicious form of sexism.

 

It is becoming less and less acceptable to attack a woman's body image, but insulting a man's "manhood" is still considered funny.

 

http://gawker.com/katy-perry-to-paparazzo-we-hv-pictures-of-ur-tiny-pen-1662385848

[Triasco]

I agree, but because of the gender lines that we have drawn for ourselves, double standards seem to be normalizing as part of our culture, which is both disappointing and unnerving.

 

Any time I am present for a conversation which involves discussion of a double standard, I take it upon myself to step in and give my two cents for what it's worth. However, in my last discussion, I found my words fell upon deaf ears; I hope this is not indicative of the rest of society on such matters.

[topdog]

I generally speak up when this is happening, and ask someone how their son or brother might feel, hearing this, and if they're sure that every man they know has a big one and won't feel bad on hearing them talk this way. If it's a more humorous setting, I'll joke about how limited and unfortunate their sexual experience must be, if they think that that is even an issue for having fun sexually. I think, like with racism and sexism, people shame themselves far more with this sort of thing than they do the people they're trying to humiliate.

[Red Scott]

First Lorde, now Katy Perry, both are using size shaming as a way to "fight back" on social media.

 

I'm all for feminism, but this is an equally pernicious form of sexism.

 

It is becoming less and less acceptable to attack a woman's body image, but insulting a man's "manhood" is still considered funny.

 

http://gawker.com/katy-perry-to-paparazzo-we-hv-pictures-of-ur-tiny-pen-1662385848

 

I simply won't stand for this, regardless of who it's aimed at. I often ask the perpetrator if they realize the sort of damage they can do to a man's confidence with such comments. I've been known to react quite angrily when I've witnessed such an attack on another guy.

 

It's simply not acceptable in any circumstance, whether intended as a joke or not. For the recipient it's just not funny.

 

[topdog]

Actually I like your reply better than mine: well said that man!

[Mark 4]

I noticed a few very insightful comments here, perhaps not surprisingly, were from men who were born with larger than average sizes.

 

I think it is super cool that there are guys out there with large sizes that don't seem to think they are superior because of it.

 

I struggle with trying not to compare myself to someone close to me with a huge dick and large balls. Sometimes I assume he is having a better life than me, just because of that. However, truth is most people are dealing with some issue, often a difficult one. The person I mentioned is actually very challenged to do anything with math or time, but is a genius in other ways. He often makes comments like how he was born with problems and wishes he was "just like everyone else." Of course I try to encourage him. He and I have never talked about dick size, by the way. But inside, I am usually thinking how great would it be if I had a problem I could actually change.

 

A few guys I've met here have seen me, and have never said anything but positive things about my smaller than average package. What I hear from these couple guys is that it is mainly the person it is attached to that matters. At first I was thinking that is just the "right" thing to say, and it is not sincere. But now I believe what I think is in fact the truth -- many people enjoy big dicks, but it isn't the most important thing in the world, and when it comes down to actual friendships and real human support, it really doesn't matter. At all.

 

In my case, my problem is mainly my self perception and attitude about my body. I can at least attempt to change that part. And get ripped :-)

[Mark 4]

And P.S. Topdog, Triasco, and Red...thanks specifically for your wisdom. I hope it touches others too.

[Red Scott]

And P.S. Topdog, Triasco, and Red...thanks specifically for your wisdom. I hope it touches others too.

 

The people who enter a relationship based on something as shallow as penis size or good looks or large breasts are the ones who struggle to find long term partners, flitting from one relationship to the next! This is because they fail to consider the person "attached" to a body part or image. Ultimately these shallow "Hal's" end up lonely.

 

As my therapist used to quote "a massive penis on the village idiot will be of little use to him, and will do nothing to improve his overall long term quality of life"

[3point5inch]

these kinds of comments are usually aimed at white men. white men are the last fair game for ridicule and stereotyping of any kind. one wouldn't dare, for example, stereotype asian men as being small endowed. gun owners, for example, are ridiculed routinely in popular culture for having small penises. of course it is understood that these gun owners are white suburban men. (red neck, monosyllabic tea party members, no?)

 

being a member of the "overprivileged", and therefore fair game for ridicule, i think i know what i am talking about. being gay does not help, by the way. neither does being devastated by a medical condition.

tony

[topdog]

I have a horrible feeling this whole topic is going to be steered off course, but I would have to say that I have sadly heard in my time a very large amount of anti-Asian racism on dick size aimed at both far Eastern (Chinese, Japanese, Thai) and South Eastern groups (Indian and Pakistani men, for example). So I'd have to disagree with the above: I know the world isn't as politically correct as I would like it, and that few groups are exempt from these crass and idiotic small penis slurs. The only group that avoids them are Black guys, who have their own issues to deal with inasmuch as everyone stereotypes them as huge, which is a bit tough on an averagely-hung Black guy who is then made to feel small. Let's not segregate: this is a vile business that hurts everyone.

[3point5inch]

why the hell would you want the world to be politically correct? it simply gets in the way of the truth.

 

in the U.S. at least, white men are the only group fair game for ridicule. i personally have never been the recipient of "white privilege". the supposed status white men have is imaginary.

 

but we are fair game none the less. we are second class citizens, if we are lucky.

[Rick]

In the U.S. at least, white men are the only group fair game for ridicule . . . we are second class citizens . . .

 

Hey Tony!

 

I'm not entirely certain why you're so certain on asserting your point of view onto everyone else, but if you feel yourself to be a "second-class citizen," then perhaps you are. However, don't blame anyone else, except yourself, for this attitude and the warped mental framework that accompanies it. And don't attempt to drag others along with you, as not all these other "white men" about whom you speak would necessarily agree with you.

 

Looking at the issue from a much broader worldwide perspective (and ignoring the OP's original whine about some entity with the phony name of Lorde, and another apparently named Katy Perry, neither of whom are anyone whose opinion is of any value, and therefore are totally meaningless), topdog's perspective on the point that East Asian men, in general, but most particularly when placed within western society, have long-endured the "small penis" stigma, whether such is even partially justified or not.

 

I completely reject your biased notion of "poor oppressed white men." That's a phoney-baloney bull-shit argument that has no basis in historical reality, let alone current reality. If you feel otherwise, that's simply you expressing your over-all negativity.

 

 

I have a horrible feeling this whole topic is going to be steered off course . . .

 

Indeed!!

 

Rick

 

 

 

 

 

[3point5inch]

your damn right, and i am hereby forcing you to agree with me. the thought police have your information. you will hereby agree with me now and in the future. your apology will be forthcoming.

[3point5inch]

in terms of speech, we here in the U.S. have something called our "first amendment" that especially protects offensive speech. it is hard for others in the world to understand. i have said i would stand in front of (the late) fred phelps and protect him from saying horrible things about gays, even though i am gay. he and his group say despicable things about gays, but i would use my "second amendment rights" to protect speech i find disgusting and despicable. the American concept of freedom is i will admit lost on most of the rest of the world. but, like you i would use my first amendment rights to do as you do and contradict those who would ridicule anyone for something over which they have no control.

[3point5inch]

hi its nice to know you have less respect for my opinion because of my size.

[Rick]

hi its nice to know you have less respect for my opinion because of my size.

 

Whatever!

 

Mark 4's posts were made on 28 November, four days before your own first comment on this thread.

 

So, it's fairly obvious he wasn't addressing you, nor could he have anticipated that you'd even show up here and make any sort of comment or reply.

 

In fact, instead, he actually specifically thanked three other individuals by Username.

 

So, it totally perplexes me as to why you would have taken anything he stated personally. If you still insist upon taking some snippet of his comment personally so as to deride yourself and devalue yourself, feel free to do so, but don't blame the earlier poster, after you've manipulated his words into such a fashion so you can thus express your own sense of "oppression" and "worthlessness."

 

You may be gay (another one of your obsessively negative self put-downs, given the back-handed way you express it), but you're still quite unattractive, as you're carrying way too much excess baggage.

 

Btw, check the pic to see how one "owns" Fred Phelps and his WBC.

 

Rick

 

[Rick]

More "owning" of Fred Phelps, everything from a biker group solemnly paying their last respects, to a nicely photo-shopped substitute sign image of Fred, to all his "girl" friends deciding what to wear to his funeral.

 

Rick

 

 

 

 

[Rick]

And here's a cutely-topical generic one, showing a proud rainbow-colored weather map, courtesy of Topeka's Channel 41, centered right over Topeka, Kansas, home to the notorious Westboro Baptist Church, and to its founder, the late, infamous Fred Phelps, also shown, photoshopped (from the pearls down) in drag.

 

Rick

 

 

 

 

 

[RodEnuf]

Here are two images that are supposedly of Fred Phelps's grave site. Note that it is quite clear in the first one that it has been photoshopped and that it's not actually the Phelps headstone.

 

The second image is a somewhat larger version of an image Rick showed above. It's clear from the first image that the crowd has been 'shopped into the second image. And, FWIW, the enhancements to the headstone have been re-done and are much improved from the first effort.

 

 

 

 

 

Alan G

[Rick]

It's clear from the first image that the crowd has been 'shopped into the second image. And, FWIW, the enhancements to the headstone have been re-done and are much improved from the first effort.

 

Hey Alan!

 

Now, I'm somewhat disappointed, as I really thought that the "crowd" image with everyone gathered around the tombstone was the real thing. However, in consolation, in comparing your two larger images, I do note a few additional "finer" details which were not totally obvious in my rather small pic.

 

First, the "mooner" really is pissing on the grave. Besides the obvious moon, I couldn't quite tell what else he might be doing which so captivated the "crowd's" attention.

 

Second, I noticed that the mantra on the bottom line of Fred's supposed headstone has been altered from "LIVE FAST DIE" to "LIVE HATE DIE."

 

Still, the very first pic, with the two T-shirt-wearing cuties, "HE'S" and "GAY," standing on either side of an unaware and unconscious Fred, is apparently real. Of all of them, though, I seriously felt "Fred in drag" was the hottest.

 

Rick

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RodEnuf]

. . . in comparing your two larger images, I do note a few additional "finer" details which were not totally obvious in my rather small pic.

 

First, the "mooner" really is pissing on the grave. Besides the obvious moon, I couldn't quite tell what else he might be doing which so captivated the "crowd's" attention.

 

Second, I noticed that the mantra on the bottom line of Fred's supposed headstone has been altered from "LIVE FAST DIE" to "LIVE HATE DIE." . . .

Hmm, you're not very observant, Rick. You apparently missed the 'pile' on the base of the near side of the tombstone, that's "what else."

 

Also, a careful look at the first photo shows that the actual name on the stone is something like CC ALLIN and the portrait is of someone other than Fred Phelps. So it's not even Fred's grave site.

 

 

Alan G

 

 

[Red Scott]

in terms of speech, we here in the U.S. have something called our "first amendment" that especially protects offensive speech. it is hard for others in the world to understand. i have said i would stand in front of (the late) fred phelps and protect him from saying horrible things about gays, even though i am gay. he and his group say despicable things about gays, but i would use my "second amendment rights" to protect speech i find disgusting and despicable. the American concept of freedom is i will admit lost on most of the rest of the world. but, like you i would use my first amendment rights to do as you do and contradict those who would ridicule anyone for something over which they have no control.

 

I agree with you on "freedom of speech" the UK has this enshrined in law and it's fiercely protected by the British public, but it's not always a good thing, especially when you have extremist groups spouting their vile rubbish!

 

But there is a difference between "free speech" and personal humiliation. A person who publicly insults and condemns a particular section of society is indeed within his/her rights to state an opinion. As long as that opinion is on the right side of whichever countries law.

 

Personal humiliation whether in private or public is not "free speech" it's bullying and is not acceptable. In the UK this would psychological abuse and therefore illegal and if it could be proven would result in prosecution. I presume the USA being an equally socially developed and law abiding country will have something similar?

 

Freedom of speech is essential for democracy to be successful, but there is a line between this and the unacceptable.

[topdog]

I think it's useful to draw a distinction between what is legally allowed, and what is good or ethical to do. I cannot imagine any law that would restrict someone saying that they believed that people were inferior because of their penis size: whilst such beliefs are vile and wrongheaded, they are not illegal (unless they included a racial slur and might count as hate speech, or a personal one and counted as defamation).

 

However, if a person wishes to express an opinion of this nature, then other people are also allowed to express THEIR opinion of what a moron they are, publicly censure them, boycott the newspaper that carries their opinion and so on. When enough people do this, advertisers realise that such comments are economic poison, and the newspaper, in print or online, starts refusing to carry this material. This is still in line with free speech: free speech does not mean free broadcasting!

 

I believe that right-thinking people stating that they find it unacceptable (as Scott did earlier), and challenging people who make this kind of statement, are a vital part of this process. I am not suggesting that someone's right to free speech is taken away, just that I don't want to hear THAT speech, much as I don't want to hear the music of Justin Bieber: okay, it's out there somewhere, and that's allowed under free speech, but it doesn't mean I have to suffer it.

[3point5inch]

Rod and Rick:

how would you guys feel if someone portrayed your parents/child's/ brother's/sister's etc grave this way?

 

I am as gay as they come and as i said, i would be willing to use my second amendment rights (our most basic, fundamental and important civil rights) to protect Phelps when he was spewing his despicable hatred.

 

I especially want those who disagree, even those who hate me, to have their right to free speech. I am not ashamed to be a flag waving freedom loving American.

 

I totally agree with your rights to publish these photos and comments. It just seems a bit disingenuous for you guys to be doing it.

Tony

 

P.S.: this also portrays wanton destruction or defacement of private property. real or photo shopped i'm not going to bother trying to figure out. No one has any right to deface someone's private property, or even public property for that matter, to make a point. If you guys want to glorify it go ahead, but you are not helping our image or the image of this site.

Tony

Edited December 4, 2014 by Guest

[3point5inch]

you are talking about harassment.

 

the difference is between being harassed vs being merely annoyed or offended.

 

OFFENDING people is generally totally acceptable under the first amendment and generally under U.S. law.

 

the concept is that no one has the right to NOT be offended.

 

Many, no doubt, are genuinely and sincerely offended by, for example, homosexuality. tough luck for them.

 

Also, having the right to free speech does not make you necessarily immune from consequences of your speech. (an example would be a civil suit for accusing someone of, say, an illicit affair and there being no basis for the claim).

 

Again, freedom can be a tough concept for those raised without it to grasp.

 

And, of course, for every right, there is a corresponding responsibility. this seems to be a hard concept for many who are new to freedom to grasp. Many seem to be quick to learn rights and slow to learn responsibility.

Tony