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Pornography and the self-perception of size


RAized

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So, I'm creating this post in order to cover this topic for alot of peope here who might not have considered the viewpoint im about to share.

Overall, I am quite sure most of us here are aware of how porn has effected the sexual mentality of men. Moreover, Id say its effected female perception of us as well, that and I don't think a lot of young dudes understand how porn has changed over the years. For instance, back in the nanites and early 2000s it was no uncommon to see some average sized men in porn, today that's more of a rarity. Material of the kind your able to find today was sparse in those days, yet now a 10 year old can get on a computer , search and see some of the craziest stuff imaginable. Looking back in hindsight, I can see how I perceived myself as a teenager almost 20 years ago, compare that with how I see myself now, and the effect that porn had on me was astonishing. I truly believed the normal size for a penis was 6-7 inches, and if you were below the 6 inch mark you were behind everyone around you in highschool. My reason for mentioning that is simply this, once I learned that the average size was actually 5-6 inches, my mind was not able to accept it, even the opinions of girls who actually agreed with this wouldn't help, its a insidious cognitive dissonance. The funny thing is, is that a 6.5 inch penis of decent girth is BIG, one of my bf's was that size and said most girls thought so, 7.5 is massive. 

I don't want the post to seem like a rant or a tangent, but I guess what I was getting at was a hopeful discussion on this to not only help others, but to get some concurrence on this, its simply a reality that the actual average is 5.1 to 5.5 measured from the top , and i must emphasize "from the top" I think there are some people who don't understand that still even after all this time. 5.1 to 5.5 isn't actually that small believe it or not, and straight up 6 inches is decent. There a incongruence of perception amongst men , how they see themselves, and I think there is also an unawareness among women who judge the actual size of what they are getting. Pornography is the main culprit, and it has ruined sexuality for the average male. I am trying to imagine a situation in which any of us can do something about it either.....thoughts?

 

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  • RodEnuf changed the title to Pornography and the self-perception of size

I agree and disagree.

On the one hand,  I agree that the porn industry and its depiction of sex and sexuality can and does have negative effects on our perception and reception of sex and one another as sexual beings.

 

However,  I disagree that porn is the problem. Like books, or movies,  or video games, the medium is only half of the story.  Our reaction to it is more a symptom of the larger issue, which is a general lack or ineffective education system for sexuality. Speaking for my opinion on American society specifically, we don't talk or teach about sex or sexuality in a healthy and productive way, and then we have the nerve to be surprised when people develop unhealthy attitudes and appetites navigating the waters on their own. 

To that end,  I think the solution is education,  for everyone but especially for the younger generations.  Most of us already have our issues and have to work to overcome them, but the young are the ones who can change the culture, who will be the be new culture regarding sex and sexuality. 

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You raise some valid points, I've sometimes posted about the effects of porn on so many people since it is so easily accessible these days. Body image for both young men and women is distorted not only by porn, but by the endless wannabe influencers online who portray unrealistic ideals of perfection... usually with the aid of Photoshop. It's leaving many young people feeling inadequate and giving them low self esteem.

As @Triasco9.5 says, the portrayal of healthy relationships on social media, music and videos is woeful. Women objectified with little or no respect, sexuality brought into question.

Schools and parent need to be realistic about 21st century attitudes. Many schools refuse to address these issues for fear of offending someone.

Channel 4 in the UK did a short series a few years ago about Sex Education, they had a variety of nude "normal" models (varying in age and gender) appearing to teenagers via video link. Many had never seen a normal body, the influence of porn was often mentioned. Boys feeling inadequate because they didn't measure up, girls not having hourglass figures and huge fake tits... Both ended up with unrealistic expectations of the opposite sex.

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Here we go again... Trying to put the blame on everyone else but ourselves. A person with a high level of self esteem and self worth, who it in touch with reality and is a rational thinker will not care about what anyone else has or has not or what that they think. When it comes to things one cannot change they would focus on what they have, be grateful for that, and make the very best of it. As the saying goes... If life you gives you lemons - make lemonade! A person with an accurate sense of reality understands that porn industry tries to exaggerate reality because the norm isn't very interesting and doesn't make money. The same goes for the movie industry. If you have insecurities there is no doubt that the problem goes deeper than the size of your penis as compared to others. It's not the porn industries fault or a lack of sex education!

I speak from experience! I have had all of the experiences that others guys with smaller than average penises have had in locker rooms, with peers and with women. I have viewed as much (or even more porn) than most here and it has never affected me negatively. I have had my share of women not having interest in me. However most times it was because of my height, not having a beard, not being muscular, not being wealthy and on and on. However I knew that there were plenty of women out there that preferred me as I am. I also realized that the type of woman who was more interested in physical characteristics was not the person who would make the best "life long partner". I'm willing to bet that I have had better sex with my small penis that a lot of guys with penises twice my size have had. As a lot of wealthy people have found... All the money in the world cannot buy happiness. The same goes for a large penis!

Let's take responsibility for our insecurities and stop blaming them on others. Others cannot fix that - but only you can!

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@NuderThanNude  From the standpoint of an adult...yes reality is exaggerated in porn and that's well understood, but not to the developing mind of a kid, you cant take a look at the sheer volume of extreme material in porn and say that it hasn't had an effect.
 

Edited by RodEnuf
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6 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

A person with a high level of self esteem and self worth, who it in touch with reality and is a rational thinker will not care about what anyone else has or has not or what that they think.

Well teens often don't have high levels of self-esteem, they are still discovering themselves and looking for answers.  They are in their formative years and still learning to be rational thinkers, but in reality overly emotion reactionary beings....

Where do you find answers about sex and sexuality?
...from uninformed friends,  the media (in my day playboy, letters in FORUM).  Distorted 1/2 truths is the source for most teens because proper education is sadly missing.  Who are the role models...Kardashians?

The issue of body image was addressed in one short blurb from my PE teacher in Grade 8.  His lecture: 
Everyone has to shower after PE.  You will see a lot of differences in your bodies.  Some of you may have started puberty and your penises come in all shapes and sizes, they are all normal and I will not tolerate anyone talking or laughing at some one else.

If the media says 5'11" with a 6.5" penis, how does a 5'5" person with a 2" flaccid penis develop self-esteem and self-worth.  Teens are still impressionable kids, not miniature adults with logical reasoning skills (hell 1/2 the adults fail at critical thinking)

As adults, yes we can "correct" the information rationally but it is not easy to change a mindset.  Better would be to have developed a mindset based on "reality" (informed factual teaching) in the formative years.

So yes I blame media AND the education system. 

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8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

Well teens often don't have high levels of self-esteem, they are still discovering themselves and looking for answers.  They are in their formative years and still learning to be rational thinkers, but in reality overly emotion reactionary beings....

Unfortunately (or fortunately) who we are at an early age depends a lot on our parents and how good a job they do at helping us to develop our self esteem and to have a accurate sense of reality. That means not shielding us from reality or babying us like a lot of parents do . I started off in school with a handicap as my parents just squeezed me in to school because of my age. That meant I was nearly a year younger that most kids in my class. At that age a year difference meant a lot. Despite that I was still small compared to kids my age. I was made fun of and bullied because of how short and thin I was. However I knew that being small gave me certain advantages. When they chased me I was faster and I could get through small spaces and get away from them. I was smart enough to realize that it wasn't my fault that I was small - we are all born with particular physical characteristics and don't have a say in the matter. I knew that with everything there are advantages and disadvantages. I just had to find ways to use my small size to my advantage. It wasn't rocket science. I could have crawled in a corner and felt sorry for myself but my parents didn't raise me that way. The same things I learned about dealing with my small stature in my eary years later helped in my teens with dealing with my small penis size.

For me, Superman and Popeye was my role models.

8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

If the media says 5'11" with a 6.5" penis, how does a 5'5" person with a 2" flaccid penis develop self-esteem and self-worth.

First by realizing flaccid size means nothing and second by realizing that bigger doesn't mean better. Was the kid with the big nose or the one with the big ears better? I wasn't brought up to be gullible and believe everything others told me.

Edited by RodEnuf
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3 hours ago, RAized said:

From the standpoint of an adult...yes reality is exaggerated in porn and that's well understood, but not to the developing mind of a kid, you cant take a look at the sheer volume of extreme material in porn and say that it hasn't had an effect. 

 

RAized -  I don't consider myself to be unusually intelligent but even when I was a kid I didn't believe the penises I saw in porn videos were the norm. I knew they used the biggest guys they could find to be able to put on a good show. I also knew that only a very small percentage of the girls I knew and saw in real life had breasts and figures like I saw in Playboy.

Edited by NuderThanNude
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There was another interesting programme on UK TV recently, again by Channel 4. I mentioned it in the TV thread, it was called "Me and my penis" https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2020/aug/24/me-and-my-penis-tv-show-ajamu-male-taboos

It tackles some of the key issues of being male, that we rarely see a penis on TV or indeed in real life. They even had brief glimpses of an erect penis which has never been done before.

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@NuderThanNude But realizations like what you're describing don't just happen. Socialization,  or the things we learn passively about the world through institutions like family, friends, school, and media, is a very real force.  Just as much as we can't put the blame just on those things,  I think it's just as much of an oversimplification for us to say people just need to "realize" what sexuality is for themselves.

Edited by Triasco9.5
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13 hours ago, Triasco9.5 said:

I think it's just as much of an oversimplification for us to say people just need to "realize" what sexuality is for themselves.

This isn't about sexuality! The problems guys face here regarding their penis can apply to any part of the body and any sex. People who are different in any way will always be ridiculed by others. People who are ignorant or lacking in self confidence are always going to try to make themself feel better about themself by putting down others. How one deals with their uniqueness is where the problem comes in. That is something very basic that that can be taught at an early age by a parent or educator and has nothing to do with sex education.

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8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

You must have been an outstanding child....

canuck45 - Interestingly, I don't see myself as special but as what should be 'normal'. I see others that let the reactions or scorns of others affect them as being deficient in their ability to act as they should. I believe the norm should be where a person has enough confidence in their own self worth that they don't need the recognition of others. I was taught at an early age (as I'm sure most others have) the expression. "Sticks and stones can hurt my bones, but words can never harm me!". But yet it makes me sick to hear so many people cry about how their lives were ruined by words spoken to them at some point in their life.

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@NuderThanNude I really cannot agree with the idea that words cannot hurt or that it cannot negatively or positively affect their lives.  They very much can.  Not everyone reacts to words the same.  From what I read with your comments, you had/have a strong self worth and could understand difference in people do not make them any less.  Self confidence is not something everyone has, actually I think it is more common than you might think.  I grew up being bullied constantly because of my own disabilities.  In many ways it made me stronger and has allowed me to be very non judgemental about other people.  As long as you are a good, kind person, I really don't care about any other characteristic.  But with the level of bullying I dealt with, there were times when words not only cut to the bone, they stayed with me for decades.  It allowed self doubt to take hold in certain areas in my life and when those things would pop up, it just reinforced those doubts.

Words are very powerful, in some case more powerful than any action.  Words can allow someone to reach goals they never thought they could or take them to the depths of darkness they can never return from.  Words have meaning, have power and shape our lives.  It depends on the person on how they allow those words to take hold. 

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11 hours ago, smallgrower said:

It depends on the person on how they allow those words to take hold. 

@smallgrower That is exactly my point. Words themselves have no power to harm us - they are only sound waves - we have to allow them to impact us negatively. If someone makes a statement I know to be false I ignore it and go about my life. I for one believe it is wrong for anyone to laugh at, or make a negative comment about a physical characteristic of someone - if it is something they have no control over. To do so would be purposeless unless the purpose was to try to make the person feel bad. That alone would tell me a lot about that person and make their opinion meaningless to me. Even if it were true and let's say I was born without a penis or an arm or a leg. It is not something I had a choice in and cannot change so why worry about it or feel bad about it. It is something I just have to learn to live with and make the best of. Someone's negative comments won't change anything and are just meaningless garbage. Hell - even people who are born blind learn to live full and rewarding lives.They may even be better in some regards since normally their other senses are more finely tuned and they can see life in ways nobody else can. They are no less of a person and have no reason to allow themselves to feel bad. They are just different - that's all. Would the human race perish if everyone were born without sight? Bats cannot see and do just fine without it.

So what, if my penis is smaller that everyone else's!? That just makes me rarer, unique and special. Everyone knows that things that are rare and unique are more valuable.

You may say "it's great you feel that way - but not everyone else does". My answer is that everyone is born with that capability. They just need to stop blaming everyone else first, then take responsibility, and make the effort themselves to develop it. It's never too late!

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3 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

If someone is gullible enough to believe the penis sizes they see in pornography represent the norm I would not be surprised if they also believe that the car chases and hand to hand combat scenes they see in movies are real.

that's rather a narcissistic tone id say,

No doubt you have intelligence, and other things amongst that I'm sure, but honestly if you were able to  that's a good thing, but most other children probably didn't have the perception you did. A child , as they are not in possession of all their faculties yet is not culpable to such a standard.

Edited by RAized
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4 hours ago, RAized said:

that's rather a narcissistic tone id say

Maybe... but it wasn't meant to be. I never considered myself anything but 'normal' in my ability to understand things (at any age). That is why I have a hard time appreciating why guys with similar experiences to mine turned out being insecure. To make matters worse, many of those guys have larger penises than I do. When I hear some of the stories I can't help but want to shout out "stop that, there is nothing wrong with you, there is no reason to feel like that"!

Unfortunately, as long as people keep making excuses for the way they are or keep blaming others or thinking they cannot change, they never will change. It may take some longer than others but everyone has the capability to refine their thinking and correct errors in what they were taught to believe. It took me into my teens to correct some of the errors that were put into my head at an early age. Many of those here with issues are well past middle age.

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@NuderThanNude I agree and disagree.

You're right, but my entire point was that it had to be taught, so I agree with you saying that people have to take responsibility and teach it. 

But people are less likely to ridicule things different from them if they understand that the difference doesn't actually mean anything in terms of worth .  And people are less likely to take offense to such ignorant ridicules if THEY know that the difference doesn't mean worth.

It's about education, sexual in one sense and simply relational in the other. 

 

More generally to your point, I think that words do have the power to hurt, especially when people are fed those messages all their life.  And regarding penis size,  if porn is all you really see, or even the vast majority of what you're exposed to in terms of sexuality, then not only is the view of size skewed, so it's the view of sexuality. 

 And people may ask possess the capability to ignore messages or words about their bodies or behavior,  but,  just like the capacity for empathy or the ability to ride a bike, some people can't utilize that until they are taught how. 

I mention empathy specifically because what confidence is for you, empathy is for me.  I was able to recognize and understand the emotions of others from an early age, without being taught.  for a long time, I couldn't understand why others couldn't do the same. Because we're not all the same, and some of us come into different capacities at different times through different circumstances. 

What's more, just telling people to toughen up and realize that words can't hurt them ignores the very real problem of the person who spoke the words in the first place.  At best, they are ignorant,  as we all are in our own ways.  at worst,  they are not only hurtful, but can be indicative of larger social problems. Hence, I saw address both by letting everyone know that,  for instance penis size is just a measure of penis size,  not manhood,  virility, sexual prowess, confidence, etc. Hence,  education. 

Edited by Triasco9.5
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7 hours ago, Triasco9.5 said:

More generally to your point, I think that words do have the power to hurt, especially when people are fed those messages all their life.

If they didn't have the power to hurt, we wouldn't have so many counsellors, psychologists or a need this website.

 

8 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

It took me into my teens to correct some of the errors that were put into my head at an early age. Many of those here with issues are well past middle age.

.  
50000+ or more guys here with various levels of insecurity, I think your precociousness as a child is the exception not the rule.  And why did it take so long, until  your teens, to correct the errors.

 

16 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

I see others that let the reactions or scorns of others affect them as being deficient in their ability to act as they should.

Perhaps those that don't react are the ones that are deficient. 

Psychopathy: impaired empathy, egotistical traits.
Is telling others how they "should" acting egotistical?
Is telling others "there is no reason to feel that way" a lack of empathy, compassion or understanding?

I think people that decide how others "should" act, what the should or shouldn't feel, and seeing others as deficient, because they don't behave/think the same way, have a lot of unresolved issues that they are denying...probably since childhood.



.

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5 hours ago, canuck45 said:

f they didn't have the power to hurt, "we wouldn't have so many counsellors, psychologists or a need this website.

 

18 hours ago, RAized said:

but most other children probably didn't have the perception you did

 

13 hours ago, Triasco9.5 said:

I agree and disagree.

You're right, but my entire point was that it had to be taught,

Triasco9.5, RAized, canuck - These are all valid points. canuck45 spells this out clearly with his words "we wouldn't have so many counsellors, psychologists"!

This is something I am realizing more and more each year. Most people in the world are really screwed up. I believe the use of drugs since the 60s by so many people hasn't helped one bit. People spend most of their awake hours in a fake reality. Unfortunately, though the problem goes even deeper and is the reason people are willing to take drugs in the first place. They are incapable of facing reality.

Unfortunately we are not born with an instruction book on the things we need to know to live a happy life. We need a - a set of principles to use in making every decision in our lives. If our decisions and feelings are based on valid principles for a successful and happy life as a human being we will have consistency and harmony throughout our life. If there is one thing most people who know me tell me it is that I am predictable. The reason is that I act on principles, rational thought and not my emotions (although I have throughout my life trained my emotions so they are generally consistent with those derived from rational thought). 

However, like everything in life there are 'snake oil salesmen' who are willing to sell us a bunch af garbage if we are gullible. We need to stay objective in our search for a set of principles (a philosophy) that is the one that actually works. It works because it is based on nature and what is required for us as human beings by our nature to live healthy and happy lives. It does not defy nature and make us self destructive. Yes, it took me into my early teens to correct the errors instilled in me by my parents and teachers because it took me that long to find and verify the validity of the set of principles (a philosophy) I have lived my life by ever since. It wasn't luck that I have a healthy sense of self esteem, have no insecurities about my body or who I am, have never needed counsellors, psychologists and have lived happily with my wife for 40 years. I am not being narcissistic by just stating a fact.

So yes, I do agree that everyone should receive an instruction book on the basics and principles needed to live their lives. It shouldn't be one that has to be taken on faith but one that can be verified through our senses and traced back to nature and what it requires for our health (both mental and physical) and survival. The world would be a much better place.

 

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I agree, I think philosophy is more important than we give it credit for,  precisely because we are human and,  as science has shown us, we make decisions quickly and primarily with our emotions before our conscious thoughts.  That is,  unless,  we practice adhering to principles, as you wisely suggest.

Getting back to the OPs concern, I think principles would help not just with our reaction to porn and to each other based on it, but probably the type of porn we produce in general.  Instead of trying to provide people fantasies of unrealistic and unhealthy ideals,  we can tap into healthier and more realistic eroticism and appreciate one another more on multiple levels. 

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This is not specific to any one poster, but rather a general one.  If anyone should be scarred for life I would be the  poster boy.  Name it and I was deprived.  I was beaten.  My sperm donor (SD) was a monster who couldn't keep his pants on for more than 10 minutes.  He even killed a black man back in the days when whites could do it with no questions asked.  He said the man jumped on the running board when he was stopped and reached in and grabbed him.  He picked up the pistol he always carried and shot him.  He lost his hat in the scuffle.  Next morning the sheriff came to the door with his hat.  He never left the house without it.  Everyone in town knew the hat.  He burned our house when I was a teen and collected the insurance.  He taught us blacks had no soul.  They died like dogs.  From an early age I knew he was wrong.  There are other stories that show how black his heart was.  My point is at some point we must realize we are responsible for who and what we are.  We had no control over those who were supposed to nurture us and failed.    When he comes up in family conversations I call him by his given name.  Some of my siblings had a problem with that.  It was a way to distance myself.  

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@old n hard I'm sorry that you went through all of that. and I wholeheartedly agree with what you mentioned about responsibility.  But I also believe in holding people like your sperm donor to task and responsible for their thoughts, words, and actions so that they can't spread that darkness as easily. I think both can and need to be done at the same time. 

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a) Woman steals a loaf of bread....1 year in jail. principles, rational, unemotional response.
b) Woman steals a loaf of bread to feed her starving children. Probation and help. emotional response.

As  a human I prefer option B.  Without emotion responses can we love? (as Spock would say, an illogical)

AI is logical and ethicists are concerned.

 

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