Struggling with SPH

[NuderThanNude]

4 hours ago, I Didnt Grow Much said:

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but gosh, can we drop it with analyzing the choices young men/older boys make at 18? Please show more sensitivity.

First, possibly as a disqualification for being able to figure out if I could’ve made one choice or the other about joining a fraternity, I have never been able to drink very much alcohol or it makes me sick, like throw up sick, so I guess I’m lucky. But for everyone else, how often do you think frat initiation doesn’t begin with drinking enough alcohol to make Barney from The Simpsons pass out, then...

Sorry but I cannot let your words go without a response but I wii try to keep it as short and to the point as possible.

Life is nothing but a series of choices. These choices can be made on rational thought based on a philosophy that is rooted in human nature and in what is required for humans to live happy and productive lives. OR, they can be based random feelings and emotions or false information and lies placed in out brains at an early age or on a philosophy that is counter productive to human existence.

When I look around at how people live their lives and the decisions they make (often based on how someone else will react to them) I cannot understand how our society hasn't collapsed long ago. As someone who has written computer programs for machines that have to work correctly under every condition that is thrown at them, I understand the structure, logic, knowledge and foresight that is needed. Unfortunately most programmers fall short in some or all of these areas and there are very few programs that 'just work', and work flawlessly every time. The code is corrupted from the start and no bug fixes can correct the problems. They normally just create new ones.

When I look around the world what I see is people whose mental programs are severely corrupted. The information children receive since birth is random garbage based on false philosophies, illogical traditions, emotions, lies, contradictions and you name it. We spend years training people using a structured, scientific, factual approach in the things they need to do a job and earn a living but we never do the same thing in training people how they should live their lives and make the correct decisions. The longer people go through their lives collecting garbage the more impossible it becomes to correct them.

If I was born with one characteristic that worked in my favor it is that I was born inquisitive and I questioned everything and I would not be satisfied until I got to an answer that was grounded in nature and indisputable. I had average parents who grew up in that same world with corrupt ideas and a false philosophy. The ideas that were being fed into my brain started driving me crazy and were full of contradictions. When I turned to the religion I was brought up in there were no real answers and the answers generally resulted in "you just have to have faith". It was at that point (in my early teens) that I began to set my mental program straight and find a true philosophy, grounded in nature and indisputable facts to live the remainder of my life as an 'independent individual' who lived and worked along other like minded people to make each of our lives easier. Along with that came the dilemma of "how to live a rational life in an irrational world". 

When we look at the two guys you talk about... they started out making the wrong decision to join a frat for all the wrong reasons at an early age and we can see the consequences. The question is if that was their fault or the fault of the people corrupting their brains through their childhood? Then came the bug fixing process.

[I Didnt Grow Much]

No need to be sorry.

[littledick724]

In my opinion, the real question is whether having an abnormally small penis (a micropenis, meaning an erect length at least 2.5 standard deviations below average) is inherently humiliating and how it affects others.

Intrinsically, we are all aware from early adolescence, sometimes even from childhood for those of us whose micropenis has had physical repercussions (particularly for urination), that we are not like others.

True micropenis is a rare medical anomaly, recognised as potentially disabling, both physically and especially psychologically, and as such, it is often associated with an inferiority complex that is nothing more than self-humiliation.

It is only with the sexual awakening that marks the end of childhood and heralds puberty that this humiliating handicap becomes exposed to the sexualised sight of others (several of my classmates saw my tiny penis when I was a schoolboy, and neither they nor I attached the slightest importance to it, whereas in adolescence, boys judge each other according to numerous criteria, including penis size) and that having an abnormally small penis becomes noticeable and provokes all sorts of reactions, primarily mockery.

And what was until then a secret personal insecurity, then becomes almost public. In my case, having a marked micropenis (non-existent soft and less than 2.5 inches erect since my 15) was a source of social anxiety, which escalated to recurring nightmares where I found myself naked in public and led me to avoidance behaviours towards others, resulting in me remaining a virgin very late.

This fear of being judged and therefore humiliated, linked to the extreme smallness of my penis, continues to paralyse me in real-life situations, but over time, gay sexual relationships, made me  understand that the various forms of humiliation I regularly endured (I was known throughout the gay community in my city by evoking nicknames, like "the cocktail sausage," "the toothpick," and people said behind my back, "he's hung like a kid," "it's so small you can't do anything with it," etc.) were normal, "natural".

At first, I suffered a lot because of it, as flirting was really difficult for me. It was solely because of my micropenis that I became completely bottom. But with ageing, I accepted the mockery and other teasing

 

 

 

[I Didnt Grow Much]

May I just ask, how is it possible that there are so many sightings of prenatal to 15-year-olds with some kind of whale dick that’s so often claimed here? Also, why would you ever be looking at the urinals, and especially at a kid? It’s not like someone is saying they actually thought they were adults, since the kid in this case is supposed to be 11/12, so, unless he had some kind of hormonal imbalance, and looked like an adult, you should know not to look. Yuck, yuck, yuck!

I’m the first to say everyone has Free Will and can do whatever they want, but some things are illegal based on what citizens vote for and decide should be inappropriate, and this stuff is definitely illegal, immoral, inappropriate, and disgusting. If you want to find a country where these types of laws don’t exist, I’ve heard that Thailand is nice. Shame on them for not taking care of their children.

[dannyboy971]

24 minutes ago, I Didnt Grow Much said:

May I just ask, how is it possible that there are so many sightings of prenatal to 15-year-olds with some kind of whale dick that’s so often claimed here? Also, why would you ever be looking at the urinals, and especially at a kid? It’s not like someone is saying they actually thought they were adults, since the kid in this case is supposed to be 11/12, so, unless he had some kind of hormonal imbalance, and looked like an adult, you should know not to look. Yuck, yuck, yuck!

I’m the first to say everyone has Free Will and can do whatever they want, but some things are illegal based on what citizens vote for and decide should be inappropriate, and this stuff is definitely illegal, immoral, inappropriate, and disgusting. If you want to find a country where these types of laws don’t exist, I’ve heard that Thailand is nice. Shame on them for not taking care of their children.

Well said i could not agree more

[canuck45]

19 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

A rational mind learns and moves on. A rational mind doesn't get involved in such worthless organizations. A rational mind understands the dangers and doesn't expose oneself to those potential dangers. A rational mind has self confidence and internal strength and understands that words can only harm them if they let them. When I hear someone try to degrade or humiliate me I just think to myself. You are a stupid A__Hole that hasn't a clue as to what you are talking about - because I know better.

That works for you, with a fully developed adult brain.
7,999,999,999 of us aren't Mr Spock.
As for worthless organizations, are frats worthless, life long friendships?
Exposure to danger, then one mustn't fly, drive, boat, go hiking in the wilderness...all sorts of dangers

And if you choose to believe psychologists, the brain isn't fully developed yet at 17-18..." However, the brain's structural wiring—especially the prefrontal cortex governing long-term planning, emotional regulation, and risk assessment—continues fine-tuning and maturing well into a person's mid-20s or early 30s." (Neuroscience News)

[canuck45]

6 hours ago, I Didnt Grow Much said:

May I just ask, how is it possible that there are so many sightings of prenatal to 15-year-olds with some kind of whale dick that’s so often claimed here? Also, why would you ever be looking at the urinals, and especially at a kid?

This seems to be happening more often, too often.

[NuderThanNude]

46 minutes ago, canuck45 said:

That works for you, with a fully developed adult brain.
7,999,999,999 of us aren't Mr Spock.
As for worthless organizations, are frats worthless, life long friendships?
Exposure to danger, then one mustn't fly, drive, boat, go hiking in the wilderness...all sorts of dangers

And if you choose to believe psychologists, the brain isn't fully developed yet at 17-18..." However, the brain's structural wiring—especially the prefrontal cortex governing long-term planning, emotional regulation, and risk assessment—continues fine-tuning and maturing well into a person's mid-20s or early 30s." (Neuroscience News)

The question is at what age is a human brain developed enough to be able to make rational decisions. A young child can learn at a very young age to not put their hand on a hot stove and make that same rational choice over and over (disregarding accidents and carelessness). They know they are not to go into the refrigerator and grab a bottle of beer and drink it because they understand cause and effect. The problem is that it is the adults who don't have developed brains and have no idea how to raise a child. In most cases they just repeat the way they were raised by their parents.

Children are lied to and coddled.  They get more lies and fantasy stories if they are brought up in religion. They are protected from hearing curse words and from bad things that happen in the world. In a nut shell they are isolated from the real world and live in a fantasy world of Easter bunnies and Santa Claus. Then one day, when they are long past their childhood, they are said to be at the 'age of consent' and a switch is flipped and they are expected to make decisions for themselves. When I look around at adults and older people I don't see them making any better decisions than children these days. They take drugs, are alcoholics, gamble their money away and do not take care for their bodies or minds,

Frat friends are like 'bar' friends. I know probably I speak for myself when I say that they generally are not the type of people I would want to be life long friends with. In comparison to most people I have very few friends and my worth isn't measured by the number of friends I have. However the friends I do have, are life long friends who have passed the test of time.

 

[anthonysmall]

On 8/10/2026 at 11:39 AM, NuderThanNude said:

Were you tied or handcuffed to an immovable object where you couldn't leave. I hate to say it but it sounds like something you allowed to happen. Did you say "NO" or refuse to open your mouth???????

I know a lot here will feel sorry for you (and depending on the actual conditions, I would also) but I have to wonder if maybe it was something that deep down inside you wanted to happen ant this justify your allowing it to happen.

I sit here asking myself what I would have done in that situation. I believe it is not something I would ask to have done but deep down inside it is an erotic situation (fantasy) and when else would I get to suck so many dicks (which I normally wouldn't admit but fantasize doing). So it would be one of those things that I wouldn't want to happen but deep down inside I would want to. Being that it was part of the pledge I would justify it by saying that I needed to do it and didn't have a choice (even if I really did). So the question is would I allow it to happen. Being as adventurous as I am - I probably would - even if I was being humiliated. Kind of like a BDSM event. Would I admit after the fact that I enjoyed it - probably not.

What a vile, disgusting comment. You should NEVER blame the victim of any crime, especially rape.

[NuderThanNude]

Did you read my post???? ("Were you tied or handcuffed to an immovable object where you couldn't leave. I hate to say it but it sounds like something you allowed to happen. Did you say "NO" or refuse to open your mouth???????") Wookieboy admitted that he had reasons to stay and risk whatever happened. He is not alone and sometimes we all make those kinds of conscious choices which me may end up regretting afterward.

Often the victim can be equally responsible if they didn't resist, walk away or express their desire to not have sex and just let it happen. Also, if they put themself in a situation at a high risk of being raped such as by being at a locations where things like that are known to happen.

We all have a personal responsibility for our own safety. If you don't look out for your own safety who else is supposed to? If we ignore that we become equally or partially responsible. Foe example, being drunk and not being in control puts a person at a high risk.

I'm not saying that is always the case however. If a person is drugged or physically forced into the situation and have taken all the precautions they could then that is a different story. Nevertheless a person has to ask themself if they could have done something different to prevent what happened so they can at least learn from a bad situation.. People are often too quick to put all the blame on someone else and continue to do the same thing expecting different results.

[canuck45]

5 hours ago, anthonysmall said:

Were you tied or handcuffed to an immovable object where you couldn't leave.

I find that kind of reasoning similar to the kind of argument rapist's defense lawyers used to bring up...what were you wearing....you asked for it.....perhaps burqas are the solution.

As for what "he" could do to prevent the assault  disgusting hazing ritual   (perhaps leave?) and would it have escalated into force?

[NuderThanNude]

8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

I find that kind of reasoning similar to the kind of argument rapist's defense lawyers used to bring up...what were you wearing....you asked for it.....perhaps burqas are the solution.

I would imagine they would be similar questions the police would ask to determine if a crime was committed. If he was able to and didn't refuse (or say NO) then it could be assumed he was a willing participant.

8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

As for what "he" could do to prevent the assault  disgusting hazing ritual   (perhaps leave?) and would it have escalated into force?

Good question, If it did escalate to force he would certainly have something to go to the police about first chance he got.

Otherwise we live in a country with a lot of latitude to what people can do (or have done to them) as long as they consent or go along with it. Would I go along with what he went through??? Possibly depending on the mood I was in at the time.

[NuderThanNude]

One of the things that I hated about dating was trying to determine if the girl was saying No because she really meant NO or because she was playing hard to get or didn't want to come across as a being easy.

[Appreciater]

...

Coercion ....... is the act of forcing someone to do something against their own free will. It uses threats, intimidation, physical force, or psychological pressure to make a person comply. 

......

Legal Status 40 Years Ago

• Criminal Law: State and federal laws long prohibited assault, extortion, coercion, and making "true threats" of physical harm or violence. 

•  

[canuck45]

1 hour ago, NuderThanNude said:

If he was able to and didn't refuse (or say NO) then it could be assumed he was a willing participant.

Mr Defendant, did he say "yes" to your abuse behavior?
Defendant: Well he was at the hazing so he knew something was going to happen
Answer my question YES or NO, Did he say YES
No he didn't
So you "assumed" he was willing and proceeded without consent.
Yes that is correct.
Judge Dredd: You may now present your closing arguments.
Members of the jury, I ask you find the defendant guilty of sexual assault, by his own admission of NOT having consent from my client and without consent it is assault regardless of any "assumptions".  

[canuck45]

2 hours ago, Appreciater said:

Coercion ....... is the act of forcing someone to do something against their own free will. It uses threats, intimidation, physical force, or psychological pressure to make a person comply. 

And all hazing involve psychological pressure to participate.

[JasonBeam]

5 hours ago, canuck45 said:

And all hazing involve psychological pressure to participate.

In the Navy I witnessed, and participated in acts of hazing. I'm neither proud, or ashamed, of it. I was young, and there is a great need to want to belong, to be accepted as one of the group, or risk being ostracized. Officially of course, hazing is forbidden. In practice, it has been done forever, in one form or another. I will say, that I never witnessed anything as extreme as has been described in this thread. 

[NuderThanNude]

8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

Mr Defendant, did he say "yes" to your abuse behavior?
Defendant: Well he was at the hazing so he knew something was going to happen
Answer my question YES or NO, Did he say YES
No he didn't
So you "assumed" he was willing and proceeded without consent.
Yes that is correct.
Judge Dredd: You may now present your closing arguments.
Members of the jury, I ask you find the defendant guilty of sexual assault, by his own admission of NOT having consent from my client and without consent it is assault regardless of any "assumptions".  

That is absurd.

If  a person walks up to a counter in a store with an item and the clerk says that will cost you $1000 and you put the money on the counter and he accepts it there is no verbal consent. Just an assumption that the person wanted to buy it as he placed it on the counter. Otherwise the person needs to tell the clerk 'No i don't to buy it I just want to know the price'. If he reaches into his pocket and hands over the money (regardless how much it hurts him to part with the money). There is no verbal consent needed throughout the transaction.

If wookieboy applied for the frat knowing that there would be hazing (as one would have to be pretty naive to not know) and accepted and followed through with the requirement that was clearly consent regardless if deep inside he hated it. What is "over the top" (aside from physical force or harm) is subjective. For a gay person who sucks different cocks all the time it may be 'just another day'. As wookieboys stated it wasn't the sucking cock that was the problem (even if it was something he didn't like) but the humiliation and degradation. If he had a higher level of self confidence or self esteem to begin with, even that part may not have bothered him.

8 hours ago, canuck45 said:

And all hazing involve psychological pressure to participate.

If a person buys a house in a rich neighborhood and everyone there drives exotic cars and he feels that in order to fit in he needs to also spend $300,000 on a car to be able to fit in (even if he has to borrow the money and pay on it for the next 20 years) the same "psychological pressure" existed. "Psychological pressure" is only a valid argument if it involved physical harm or coercion.

 

As wookieboy said in his own words... "... I still am angry at myself for not walking out.  Iii was Legacy, and my dad had paid for me to be in the house.   No one needs to be sympathetic."

In keeping with the theme of the post it wasn't about what happened to him during the hazing but the fact that he now finds it erotic.

If it's any consolation to wookieboy... I hate to admit it but I find the physical part of what happened to him a pretty erotic fantasy. I don't know if it became a reality if I would like it but I'd like to give it a try.

Edited August 15 by NuderThanNude

[Pumpkin Eater]

At least in a fraternity, submitting to hazing humiliation is supposed win acceptance and solidarity with the fraternity "brothers".  I assume that was the result for Wookie. 

I always doubted that so, hearing about hazing I never joined or tried to join a fraternity.  Even the more civilized Frats were rumored to have pretty severe rituals.

Also, I learned as a kid with a small dick and very late puberty that submitting sexually for a time to a small group did not win me acceptance by that group.

Also, I found part of the reason for accepting the dominance was a tendency to identify temporarily with my abusers.  Admiring them?  Stockholm? 

They didn't really force me.  I allowed them in advance to be forcible.  Well, not the first time, but I returned for more voluntarily.  The first time was a surprise, but part of the surprise was how erotic it felt, especially after.  And how much  I was impressed by their virility.  Wishing I could be like them?

 

Edited August 15 by Pumpkin Eater

[Appreciater]

......

Hazing is illegal in the majority of the United States, but laws and penalties are set primarily at the state level rather than through a single comprehensive federal criminal statute. 

State Laws and Penalties

• 44 states and the District of Columbia have specific anti-hazing laws. 

• 6 states (Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Wyoming) do not have specific, standalone anti-hazing criminal statutes, though traditional criminal charges like assault, battery, or reckless endangerment still apply. 

• Misdemeanor vs. Felony: Most states treat hazing as a misdemeanor resulting in fines or minor jail time. However, roughly 13 states classify severe hazing—especially incidents causing serious injury or death—as a felony. 

• California Law: Under California Penal Code Section 245.6, hazing that causes bodily injury is a misdemeanor, but if it results in serious injury or death, it can be prosecuted as a felony. 

Federal Oversight and Reporting

• Stop Campus Hazing Act: This federal law requires colleges and universities that receive federal student aid to track, document, and publicly report campus hazing incidents in their annual security statistics. 

• Military Hazing: Hazing is strictly prohibited across all branches of the U.S. Armed Forces under military regulations and is punishable via the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). 

[NuderThanNude]

18 minutes ago, Appreciater said:

......

Hazing is illegal in the majority of the United States, but laws and penalties are set primarily at the state level rather than through a single comprehensive federal criminal statute. 

 

State Laws and Penalties

• 44 states and the District of Columbia have specific anti-hazing laws. 

• 6 states (Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Wyoming) do not have specific, standalone anti-hazing criminal statutes, though traditional criminal charges like assault, battery, or reckless endangerment still apply. 

• Misdemeanor vs. Felony: Most states treat hazing as a misdemeanor resulting in fines or minor jail time. However, roughly 13 states classify severe hazing—especially incidents causing serious injury or death—as a felony. 

• California Law: Under California Penal Code Section 245.6, hazing that causes bodily injury is a misdemeanor, but if it results in serious injury or death, it can be prosecuted as a felony. 

 

Federal Oversight and Reporting

• Stop Campus Hazing Act: This federal law requires colleges and universities that receive federal student aid to track, document, and publicly report campus hazing incidents in their annual security statistics. 

• Military Hazing: Hazing is strictly prohibited across all branches of the U.S. Armed Forces under military regulations and is punishable via the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). 

Why does there need to be ANOTHER LAW to cover the same kind of crimes of inflicting physical harm on someone. 

There are so many laws already that no human being can ever know all of them during a lifetime. 

... and, ignorance of the law is no excuse. What a joke that is!

[canuck45]

4 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

If  a person walks up to a counter in a store with an item and the clerk says that will cost you $1000 and you put the money on the counter and he accepts it there is no verbal consent.

Apples and oranges.  And putting the money on the table is the consent.  

 

4 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

still am angry at myself for not walking out.

and rape victims often blame themselves for not having to do "something" more.

 

1 hour ago, NuderThanNude said:

Why does there need to be ANOTHER LAW to cover the same kind of crimes of inflicting physical harm on someone. 

Because frats say It's just a hazing, part of being accepted and we didn't mean any harm and it's been going on for decades.
The "it's not really assault, just fun and games."

Rationalize anyway you want, hazing is pathetic, , and juvenile.

 

4 hours ago, NuderThanNude said:

If he had a higher level of self confidence or self esteem to begin with, even that part may not have bothered him.

IF wishes were horses beggars could fly.

 

[NuderThanNude]

4 hours ago, canuck45 said:

And putting the money on the table is the consent. 

Signing up to join the frat and showing up for the hazing and willingly sucking cocks is the consent.

Maybe there should be a law against playing football, hockey and boxing as players get seriously hurt all the time. I don't see much difference. I never played any of them nor joined a frat because I look out for my well being. There is not enough potential gain to justify the risk.

... and people should ask themself if there is more they could have done to avoid what happened. That's the only way one learns. They can just put the blame entirely on everyone else and be stupid all their life.

[Pumpkin Eater]

On 8/14/2026 at 8:37 PM, NuderThanNude said:

One of the things that I hated about dating was trying to determine if the girl was saying No because she really meant NO or because she was playing hard to get or didn't want to come across as a being easy.

Once when I first started dating, I asked a college girl why she wouldn't let me touch her breasts in spite of the fact we made out hot and heavy.  She had been very angry when I touched her breast just momentarily, but quickly went back to making out!

While French kissing, she had her leg purposely against my hard dick through my clothes and my leg and hand was often on her pussy through her clothes and swim wear.   The French kissing shocked me at first, reminding me of oral sex, but I pretended it didn't.

She said something like, "I know we'd go all the way if I let you play with my breasts and we're not committed to each other."   Huh?

This was a long time ago:  about 1967.  Several young women I dated were similar back then.

Edited August 16 by Pumpkin Eater

[Pumpkin Eater]

20 hours ago, Appreciater said:

......

Hazing is illegal in the majority of the United States, but laws and penalties are set primarily at the state level rather than through a single comprehensive federal criminal statute. 

 

State Laws and Penalties

• 44 states and the District of Columbia have specific anti-hazing laws. 

• 6 states (Alaska, Hawaii, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, and Wyoming) do not have specific, standalone anti-hazing criminal statutes, though traditional criminal charges like assault, battery, or reckless endangerment still apply. 

• Misdemeanor vs. Felony: Most states treat hazing as a misdemeanor resulting in fines or minor jail time. However, roughly 13 states classify severe hazing—especially incidents causing serious injury or death—as a felony. 

• California Law: Under California Penal Code Section 245.6, hazing that causes bodily injury is a misdemeanor, but if it results in serious injury or death, it can be prosecuted as a felony. 

 

Federal Oversight and Reporting

• Stop Campus Hazing Act: This federal law requires colleges and universities that receive federal student aid to track, document, and publicly report campus hazing incidents in their annual security statistics. 

• Military Hazing: Hazing is strictly prohibited across all branches of the U.S. Armed Forces under military regulations and is punishable via the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). 

I hear it is still pretty much universal, however, not just at the "animal houses" either.  I hear sometimes now there is no sex acts, just humiliation, nudity, intimate ego destruction, paddling, etc.

Edited August 16 by Pumpkin Eater