Societal Attitudes on Size

[topdog]

On 1/16/2019 at 1:44 PM, canuck45 said:

@topdog Well if Confucius believe that a man with a small penis was more spiritually advanced is correct and

as we all know advanced aliens have done away with the mess of reproduction (hence don't need a penis)

and gods can create life at will (no penis necessary)

then a small penis would be the result of good karma and re-incarnation moving towards a higher plane as we evolve to a godlike state of being.....

@overthehill 

with numerous schools of  indian  religion, asian schools of religion,  there is not one clear definition of karma.  Some schools believe karma affects this life and future, some believe in rebirth and karma affects the new life, some don't believe in re-birth, some believe karma can be transferred.....

No.  A word can't just mean whatever you want it to.  Yes, there are different flavours within Hinduism, but it is one of the most united religions on earth, and tends not to schism and sect the way evangelical religions do.  And the definitions of Karma are pretty universal, and laid down in ancient Hindu texts.  I have never come across a definition of Karma which suggests that compassion and care should be withheld because a condition is a person's karma - it means entirely the reverse, that good Karma is earned by acts of morality, compassion and courage.  There is no version of Hinduism which accords with Blueridgedad's.  I have also not come across a version of Hinduism that didn't believe that Karma affected future lives, as that's the whole point of it: could someone give me a reference for that was well?

Buddhism is a little more schismed than Hinduism, but as the Buddha said we should have compassion for all living things, I can't imagine a school of Buddhism that would use Karma this way either.

If anyone can come up with a genuine Buddhist or Hindu school of thought that teaches withholding compassion from people who suffer, I'll gladly donate £20 to Measurection!

 

[canuck45]

3 hours ago, topdog said:

No.  A word can't just mean whatever you want it to.

I am not a scholar on eastern religions, but found this.
___________________________

Difficulty in arriving at a definition of karma arises because of the diversity of views among the schools of Hinduism; some, for example, consider karma and rebirth linked and simultaneously essential, some consider karma but not rebirth essential, and a few discuss and conclude karma and rebirth to be flawed fiction

·         Kaufman, W. R. (2005), Karma, rebirth, and the problem of evil, Philosophy East and West, pp 15-32;

·         Sharma, A. (1996), On the distinction between Karma and Rebirth in Hinduism, Asian Philosophy, 6(1), pp 29-35;

·         Bhattacharya, R. (2012), Svabhāvavāda and the Cārvāka/Lokāyata: A Historical Overview, Journal of Indian Philosophy, 40(6), pp 593-614

 Over time, various schools of Hinduism developed many different definitions of karma, some making karma appear quite deterministic, while others make room for free will and moral agency. Buddhism and Jainism have their own karma precepts. Thus karma has not one, but multiple definitions and different meanings

·         Harold Coward (2003) Encyclopedia of Science of Religion, MacMillan Reference,

_________________________

Seems to be Karma has a variety of definitions (and may not exist at all!).  However, the common theme from limited reading is: good action seem to generate positive karma and bad action generate negative Karma and found no reference to not having compassion for the plight of others.....(they deserved it...too bad...nah nah na nah na)

May the God of the One True Church bless you!  (I know the one true church and one true god.....arrogance? bad karma?) LOL

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by canuck45

[topdog]

Thanks Canuck, and you make a fair point about the variety of Karmas.  Reading from what you've said, it mostly seems to be about the application of Karma rather than it's definition - even the ones who think it's a flawed fiction seem to agree what it is, just that it isn't true!  The idea that we attract bad Karma by immoral deeds (as defined in the Vedas and Bhagavad-Gita), and good Karma by good deeds (which, weirdly, include asceticisms, like standing on one foot for ten years!), seems agreed on - the difference of opinion is about whether it's true, or deterministic, or affecting future lives.  And, as you say, nobody uses the 'no compassion' definition.

However, you've told me something I didn't know, and I was definitely wrong in part, so I've made the donation anyway!  And, to paraphrase Voltaire, may God (if there is one) bless your soul (if you have one)!

[blueridgedad]

@topdog It is not all as callous as you state.  How one comes into the world is that person's karma. That person chose that life he is now living.  How you react to that person will affect your karma.  Just because one comes into the world with a physical disability or handicap doesn't mean one has to torment him any further.  

I certainly sympathize with anyone bearing a hardship. I guess I'm a tough-love guy with the accent on love.

 I believe in helping one's fellow man. The Old Testament is fairly callous ( an eye for an eye).  The New Testament is all about forgiveness and salvation.   Love and Kindness begets good karma. 

The early Christian Church affirmed reincarnation in the year 451 at the Council of Chalcedon.  Jesus was a Nazarene-Essene.  The Dead Sea Scrolls found in 1945 revealed the Essenes as a community of people practicing something akin to Christianity at least 200 years before Christ.  The Essenes believed in reincarnation.  Jesus himself said, "Ye must be born again," which the Church has re-interpreted for its own purposes. 

Quoting another French philosopher, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin,  "We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."  

 

 

[topdog]

Blueridge, it's nice that you believe in love and kindness, but your original post stated:

On 1/15/2019 at 11:19 PM, blueridgedad said:

In particular, I am referring to the belief in reincarnation and karma, which I happen to believe in also.  In the movie Slumdog Millionaire, the handicapped and lower castes were regarded without pity. It was their lot and karma in life to overcome the handicap or status earned from a previous life. No charity was bestowed upon the downtrodden.  In fact just the opposite - contempt and derision.

 It could be said that it makes the victimized stronger against their society's vituperation and castigation; as well as advancing their soul development. This idea of karma and retribution is so alien to our western beliefs, but imagine if our society was built on the religious dogma of karma.

So, you were suggesting that contempt and derision could make the victims stronger, and advance their soul development.  That isn't Karma, or Christian compassion, it's just a charter for callousness and bullying.  It's completely at odds with love, kindness, compassion or the sympathy you now claim to feel.  

It's also wrong - contempt and derision does not make people stronger.  People are made stronger by love and encouragement.  Look at any good sports trainer or coach - they make it clear that they believe in the talent of those they coach, they encourage, they improve their morale.  They don't treat them with contempt and derision.  Children treated with contempt and derision can spend their lives trying to get over it - only  a small minority overcome a background like that.
 

Edited January 17, 2019 by RodEnuf
Reformatted quoted text.

[Guest]

Dang!  Though not typically impressed by mystical doctrines, I'm tempted to believe my less than admirable life journey was due to the Karma of wrong doing in a prior life and not due to any fault of my own in this life.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Guest

[canuck45]

@topdog That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....I hear this all the time (in recoverY) BUT usually in analyse of a situation and to learn how to handle and grow from it

[topdog]

9 hours ago, canuck45 said:

@topdog That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger.....I hear this all the time (in recoverY) BUT usually in analyse of a situation and to learn how to handle and grow from it

I agree this can be a useful way of seeing a trauma that's already happened to you, and deciding not to be cowed by it.  However, we both know it usually isn't the case, either literally (most serious wounds and illnesses leave you weaker), or metaphorically - bullying and psychological trauma can give people crushing personal problems which can be with them for life.  The need for a site like this is evidence of that.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, topdog said:

I agree this can be a useful way of seeing a trauma that's already happened to you, and deciding not to be cowed by it.  However, we both know it usually isn't the case, either literally (most serious wounds and illnesses leave you weaker), or metaphorically - bullying and psychological trauma can give people crushing personal problems which can be with them for life.  The need for a site like this is evidence of that.

Yeah, I think you are right.  Nietzsche was interesting, but promoted bravado. 

Though, it is probably wrong to call him a Nazi like some do, he seems to me to have thought that Western Civilization suffered from bad conscience because of Christianity and, therefore, was unfit for the role of Imperial World Masters it had embarked upon.  He disparaged Christianity as a "slave morality" if I recall correctly.  

There is a big dose of DENIAL in:  

Quote

That which doesn't kill us makes us stronger..

I actually was taught denial by my parents and family.  I can testify that it doesn't work, at least not for me.  You have to wrestle with the truth.  I wasted a lot of time avoiding it and pretending otherwise.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Guest

[blueridgedad]

@topdog I guess you should call yourself  rabid dog. You won't let it go.   You might also want to learn how to read. I said I believe in reincarnation and karma. I did not say I believe  in how it is practiced in India or adhere to how it is presented in the movie Slumdog Millionaire.

I also said "it could be said."  That is what is called a supposition.  It does not mean "I believe" or "I support."

I also said  'Imagine if our society was built on this idea of karma."  I didn't say that I want to institute such a society.  I said  "imagine" which is also not a synonym for "believe" or "condone."

I did say I believe in tough love with the accent on love. 

I do admit to being wrong about Confucius. it may have been said by Buddha, but I haven't been able to verify it.  Referring to Buddhism on a preview page 235 of the book  Society, Spirituality, and the Sacred by Don Swenson, it reads, "he will be reborn with a small penis, whereas if a woman does the same, she will be reborn a prostitute."  Maddeningly, page 234 is not part of the preview so the supposed "sin" is not known.   

https://books.google.com/books?id=02t-36uLWsUC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=Buddha++small+penis&source=bl&ots=bPxLSzZXpf&sig=ACfU3U35Z36NNW4St6bqlbFlb9zRTnoNLA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU0f_h3__fAhVEgK0KHfJvD0wQ6AEwCHoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=Buddha small penis&f=false

Finally, do you think you can give it a rest ?

 

 

[topdog]

1 hour ago, blueridgedad said:

Finally, do you think you can give it a rest ?

 

Yeah, now you've eaten it.

[Red Scott]

Oooof! Let me go get some popcorn a drink and a comfy seat! 

[blueridgedad]

@Red Scott @Red Scott @topdog I guess you should call yourself  rabid dog. You won't let it go.   You might also want to learn how to read. I said I believe in reincarnation and karma. I did not say I believe  in how it is practiced in India or adhere to how it is presented in the movie Slumdog Millionaire.

I also said "it could be said."  That is what is called a supposition.  It does not mean "I believe."

I also said  'Imagine if our society was built on this idea of karma."  I didn't say that I want to institute such a society.  I said  "imagine" which is also not a synonym for "believe." 

I did say I believe in tough love with the accent on love. 

I do admit to being wrong about Confucius. it may have been said by Buddha, but I haven't been able to verify it.  Referring to Buddhism on a preview page 235 of the book  Society, Spirituality, and the Sacred by Don Swenson, it reads, "he will be reborn with a small penis, whereas if a woman does the same, she will be reborn a prostitute."  Maddeningly, page 234 is not part of the preview so the supposed "sin" is not known.   

https://books.google.com/books?id=02t-36uLWsUC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=Buddha++small+penis&source=bl&ots=bPxLSzZXpf&sig=ACfU3U35Z36NNW4St6bqlbFlb9zRTnoNLA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjU0f_h3__fAhVEgK0KHfJvD0wQ6AEwCHoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=Buddha small penis&f=false

Finally, do you think you can give it a rest ?

Save yourself the popcorn, Red.  No point in further jousts with this guy.

Reminds me of the story of two cars facing each other in the middle of a one lane bridge.

First guy (RabidDog) says, " I never back up for an idiot."

Second guy (me) gets in the car and backs off the bridge saying " I always do."

This guy accuses me of things I never said, so there is no point in reasoning with him. 

 

 

 

 

[Red Scott]

Hey, don't involve me in this I'm just a spectator! 

[topdog]

Anyway, with the Karma thing out of the way, to return to the previous discussion:

 

1.        Whilst the Greeks seem to be about the only culture that valued small penises, the fact that a culture CAN value them means that ‘preferring large’ is a social construct, not something instinctual, as the Greeks must have had the same instincts as other human beings.

 

2.       If it’s a social construct, it can be challenged and changed, in the same way that attitudes to women and gay people have been challenged and changed in the past 40 years.  Yes, it’s a slow and often unrewarding process, but the change, for me in my life, has been revolutionary. 

 

3.       Therefore ‘body shaming’ of small penises should always be challenged.  It’s wrong because it isn’t true – large penises are not necessarily better for sex (or at least, this is debateable with many people liking small, or not minding).  And it’s wrong because of the impact it has on small-penised men.

 

On a personal level, I have always challenged this type of talk – sometimes with a joke, sometimes with a serious argument.  I’m sure that for some people this merely shuts them up, but actually, just as I’m okay with racists shutting up about their racism, I’m fine with small-penis shamers shutting up about their prejudices.  And, for many people, I find they’ve never thought about it that way before, and take it on board – I find this is quite a common reaction from women who have picked up the ‘small penis shaming’ meme unthinkingly.

[canuck45]

@topdog I find it interesting that if you slam an overweight woman (person) OMG the flak, BODY SHAMING, but small penis is still a fair game.

 

[Red Scott]

@topdog When I berate or react to a person for small penis shaming I will usually quickly forgive them. Most of the time they don't usually realise the hurt and torment it causes. The majority of these people will show quite a level of remorse and feel shame themselves once they think about the relationship between a guys penis and his self esteem. Often this isn't considered by the people dishing out either jokes or straight up cruel jibes! 

[Guest]

On 1/24/2019 at 2:50 PM, Red Scott said:

@topdog When I berate or react to a person for small penis shaming I will usually quickly forgive them. Most of the time they don't usually realise the hurt and torment it causes. The majority of these people will show quite a level of remorse and feel shame themselves once they think about the relationship between a guys penis and his self esteem. Often this isn't considered by the people dishing out either jokes or straight up cruel jibes! 

Just notice this.  Couldn't disagree more.  People enjoy sadism.  Sure, they pretend remorse when caught. 

"Sorry, Mom.  I didn't mean to put my hand in the cookie jar."

[Guest]

On 1/24/2019 at 12:57 AM, in part, topdog said:

1.        Whilst the Greeks seem to be about the only culture that valued small penises, the fact that a culture CAN value them means that ‘preferring large’ is a social construct, not something instinctual, as the Greeks must have had the same instincts as other human beings.

How about Greeks valuing the small penis as a denial strategy or reaction formation?  Equating large with despised barbarians is perhaps similar to Southern USA racists equating large with uncivilized Blacks. . ., but with secret envy, of course.

[canuck45]

Quote

Just notice this.  Couldn't disagree more.  People enjoy sadism.  Sure, they pretend remorse when caught. 
"Sorry, Mom.  I didn't mean to put my hand in the cookie jar."

We are not talking about a 5 yr old getting caught.
Some people grow up and  the remorse is real.
 

Quote

How about Greeks valuing the small penis as a denial strategy

Or they just found a smaller penis more aesthetic.
Not everything in the world has a sinister, sadistic side to it.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, canuck45 said:

We are not talking about a 5 yr old getting caught.
Some people grow up and  the remorse is real.
 

Or they just found a smaller penis more aesthetic.
Not everything in the world has a sinister, sadistic side to it.

Really?

[canuck45]

@JamesD 
YES really. 

[shooter]

@canuck45  or they just wanted to save on the raw material - smaller the manhood,  less marble needed (just jokein) 

[sgdgolf]

I have been made fun of a lot for my lack of size by all kinds of people, all my life. Let's face it, small dicked guys are an easy target and mine is particularly small. I do not let it bother me. There is nothing I can do about it anyways, so I try to make up for that with other qualities.